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Poster:
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Mandojammer |
Date:
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June 23, 2011 05:47:54am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Nobody asked....sorta threadjack |
"TR split the R. vote and that racist megalomaniac squeaked in. One of the worst Presidents we have had."
Hard to top Wilson. Creation of the Federal Reserve????
Jackson's personal involvement in "Trail of Tears" and Lincoln's suspension of habeus corpus land them both in my Top 5 Shitty President's list.
Millard Filmore comes in at number 4 just because his name was "Millard".
#5 is everyone from FDR to present - except Ike. Kennedy may have turned out okay if he hadn't been allergic to lead.
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Poster:
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AltheaRose |
Date:
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June 23, 2011 06:43:36am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Nobody asked....sorta threadjack |
Oh my goodness. A McClellan man. You Copperhead, you!
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Poster:
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Mandojammer |
Date:
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June 23, 2011 09:15:01am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Nobody asked....sorta threadjack |
More like William Tecumseh Sherman.
Except I would march through the Capitol.
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Poster:
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snow_and_rain |
Date:
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June 23, 2011 09:22:57am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Nobody asked....sorta threadjack |
Wait! I have to ask... You knock Lincoln for suspending habeas corpus, but you're a Sherman fan? Sherman practically invented "total war." Any guesses as to how he felt about due process?
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Poster:
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Mandojammer |
Date:
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June 23, 2011 12:19:15pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Nobody asked....sorta threadjack |
Fair enough....point well made.
Any guesses as to how I feel about how deserving our elected officials are wrt to the job they are doing, the state of the country and affording them due process?
Begin the March with two drummers.........wait, that ran its course a few days ago.
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Poster:
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deadhead53 |
Date:
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June 23, 2011 12:28:27pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Nobody asked....sorta threadjack |
Mando,
While we may disagree about Lincoln I think we would completley agree about our elected officials today!
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Poster:
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AltheaRose |
Date:
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June 23, 2011 09:41:19pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Nobody asked....sorta threadjack |
Not an option. Sherman didn't run.
(And besides, while Sherman may not really have said "the only good Indian" etc, his actions against Indian civilians sure expressed it. Tear up the tracks and burn the fields, transferred to the West. Certainly up there with Trail of Tears.)
But sorry, Mando, in '64 it's either Lincoln or McClellan. Or, if you prefer '60 (before habeus corpus was an issue), you get to pick between ... two-drummer drumroll, please ... Breckenridge, who did indeed later try to march on the Capitol at Fort Stephen; Bell, a slaveholder; or Douglas, who was pro-Dred Scott and also died in '61, so we'd have had a slaveholding president named ... HERSCHEL! Which would definitely beat Millard.
And your vote goes to ... ?
Here's Herschel Vespasian Johnson, our coulda-been 17th president if the soon-to-be-deceased Douglas had beaten Lincoln:
This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2011-06-24 04:41:19
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Poster:
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deadhead53 |
Date:
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June 23, 2011 11:53:22am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Nobody asked....sorta threadjack |
Lincoln's suspension of Habeus Corpus, does not and should not make him a terrible President in my opinion. The Constitution grants the President this power to limit freedoms in times of war like the Civil War, although it is extreme (but so weren't those times), he was well within his presidential abilities to do it. If not for Lincoln this country may not have won the Civil War and slavery might have been legal for a lot longer than it was. He needed to make a decision which he thought was in the best interest of America. FDR's interment camps, in my opinion, was much worse that what Lincoln did. FDR also pushed the boundaries of what a President could do with the New Deal, now it may have been what the country needed, but it was pushing the limits of Pres power. What Lincoln did was well within his power as a President. To me, Lincoln was and still is our best President we have had, with TR and Washington in second and then FDR and then I guess it is up to the person who makes #5 on, I would think Ike, Adams, Jefferson would be in the next tier but to me those 4 guys established themselves above all. Nice discussion started here, as a history teacher and GD lover this combines this all into one, if only we could weave football into this and it would hit the trifecta!
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Poster:
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Mandojammer |
Date:
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June 23, 2011 12:23:41pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Nobody asked....sorta threadjack |
The Constitution also establishes separation of powers.
Ex parte Merryman declared Lincoln's suspension unconstitutional and ordered the Army to bring Merryman before the Supreme Court.
Lincoln ignored the ruling and did it anyway. That in my opinion is the much graver sin. Defying and/or ignoring separation of powers puts one on a very slippery slope. That Lincoln was able to extricate himself, and the subsequent course the Civil War ran, is only partially mitigating.
I'm afraid I have very little good to say about FDR. Executive Order 6102 could arguably be entered as evidence supporting treason charges. Granted, I doubt FDR could have foreseen the further debasement and erosion of the Nation's currency that was to come, but it certainly paved the way for Bretton Woods, the IMF and the beginning of the dollar's end. FDR's opposition to the dissolution of the Bank for International Settlements on the charge that the BIS aided and abetted Nazi Germany war crimes was a stage act he took to his grave.
Come to think of it, that puts Truman up in the Top 5 (move over Millard) since he essentially suspended the dissolution and reversed the decision to shut down the BIS.
At least Lincoln's favorite football team was the Dallas Cowboys.....I'll bet you did not know that Mary Todd was one of the original Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders?
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Poster:
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deadhead53 |
Date:
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June 23, 2011 12:48:29pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: Nobody asked....sorta threadjack |
All good points here Mando, and I know there is seperation of powers, I just see what he did as Constitutionally legal but you bring up valid points. I have never been a huge FDR fan but he did get elected 4 straight times, so that has to count for something and his decisions prior to WWII I think were very good in terms of preparing the country but the points about the dollar you make about him are valid and the Interment camps to me are always huge sticking points when it comes to rating Presidents.! Good points to think about Mando and I think Lincoln was a Pats fan and Mary Todd was a huge bruins/Sox fan! Hahahahahaha
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